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One particular detail about her first encounter with him is just...sigh. In their first sexual encounter, after extended foreplay, his first intercourse move was to penetrate her anally...without invitation, conversation, expectation, preparation, or consent. She said it was horrific...hated it...pain...did not want it or, obviously enjoy it at all, couldn't wait for it to be over. He did that to completion...rolled off...and fell asleep when she went to bathe afterwards.

...

Bit her lip in the dark. Endured it. For him (that she returned to him for further encounters blows my mind even still). Anyway.....ALLLLLLLlllll of that horrow show scene setup to say....what an absolute midfuck of emotional turmoil that particular "scene" set off in me.

Just another proof that cheating is seldom about the quality of the sex. It has to be something else before it gets to that point and the quality of the sex isn't always the reason it continues. Not sure that helps or hurts in your case.

[This message edited by grubs at 2:34 PM, Thursday, June 12th]

Good Morning,

As I suspected, I have a pretty severe over-sharing hangover this morning from my last post. Still going to let it ride at this point, but writing all that out and thinking (and writing) out loud all of that has me feeling a bit unhinged about it all this morning.

I DO want to offer a quick (ha!) note today on some of the things I wanted to share yesterday before allll of that gushed out.

I want to thank Sisoon for the deep encouragement I feel from you identifying evidence of "strength" in the snippets of my story I am able to get out here. I certainly struggle to feel like it's strength I am experiencing...especially this far out (yesterday's post as evidence). But when it's laid out like that, I can see it some. Thank you.

I also want to thank Grieving again. In re-reading your last post in this thread, not only did the whole violation concept you describe strike me, but also the part about how just embracing the "less-than" of the current state your post-affair experience of your marriage on the whole has been one of the more healing things for you recently. And letting go and not trying to anayalze and figure and change or find a different narrative of that reality. But kind of lean into it. I mean, I already replied to that a bit up thread, but in re-reading it, it settled in a much deeper place in me than it after first brush. I can really see and even feel already how that can, ironically it seems, actually be a positive and healing thing. Accept what is now without freaking the hell out about what it is, and trust, that I am on an upward trajectory (and I actually DO believe this - I am SO much better now than even last year at this time) even as the arc remains way longer than I hoped, want, or anticipated. This is (hard earned I'm certain) healing advice, and I am embracing it and very thankful that it was shared.

Also, the notion that sex is just, well, so freaking complicated. Extremely so. Seems elementary, but it helps to just have that plainly spoken. It makes me feel a little less weird being caught in this struggle when it's painted so succinctly as that. Complex and complicated, fraught, and weighted, misguided, fun, joyful, abused, etc. Just. Complicated. I DO think, when treated too casually, we can sort of aneasthescize ourselves to that complexity, some would argue for better...some would argue for worse. It was never, has never been, and I doubt ever will be a casual thing for me. So I think I get the full blast of a lot of the darker sides of the complexity as a result...at least in how betryayal has affected it. I also think, even with as complex. layered, fraught, and laden that sex is and can be, there does seem to be just a common, base level thing with it (CONSENSUAL expreiences only of course) that's probably a big part of why I am stuck on it:

The desire to give and share and reciprocate one's most private and personal parts of themselves with another. To give and share in a way in which, can be argued, is the most that can be given and shared between two people. And also to desire to take/receive that most private and personal offering from the other. I'll be (probably rightfully) accused of romanticizing here I am sure. But I honestly think that this might be close to the thing for me. I can't even, right even in this moment,14 and 4 years removed from discovery, believe, after sharing this reciprocal thing so joyfully, happily, lustfully, beautifully and fulfillingly with me...for so long...that she would desire to give that..and take that...share that...with someone else. To reveal and share her most hidden and protected places, bodily of course, but also in the attempt to do the same emotionally. And to drink in his sharing of the same...even though he was obviously just TAKING...he still had to share his most private and personal parts too, at least bodily...and knowing that she wanted him to do that. And to take that, reveive that from him. I don't know.

I feel that familiar tug that I'm going too far here again, so I will stop. But this feels like a big big part of (at least) why I'm stuck here. And maybe all I've really done is use too many words to very ineffeciently describe the 101 level definition of sexual betryal. So...duh? But...regardless...I want to thank Grieving again for the prompt about sex being just this super complicated thing if we really stop and consider it. It was the catalyst again for these thoughts.

I'm not sure how much life, if any, this thread still has in it, so I will take the opportunity one more time to thank all who have/are/and might yet still participate in it.

Y'all rock.

WH

Sharing or even if you think you have over-shared — writing it all out, at home or venting with us here on SI can be very cathartic.

Writing out some of the rage here was extremely helpful to me. I did vent some to my IC, and a lot to my wife, but SI venting was good for me.

The details of the infidelity horror show are amazingly similar.

One of the events my wife recalled, she absolutely described a sexual assault, and she hadn’t even realized how harsh it was, until she described it out loud. At the end of it, she decided that she had to have some amount of wanting to, despite everything she described as being forced. How far will a WS go to keep the fantasy bullshit rolling along? Pretty far actually.

At some point, I understood my wife’s childhood had no healthy love along the way and she had to discover being treated horribly to appreciate what she destroyed during her A. No excuses here, I didn’t sign up to be compared to a horrible AP and then finally appreciated for being a good guy.

My only point is keep venting, keep writing out it. Process it all and conquer the anger, and the sadness (got to feel those damn feels first though).

If writing it out and essentially yelling it from a mountaintop albeit, somewhat anonymously here, helps you out, then by all means do it

One can't receive help without describing the problem. You have almost full-control over what you share, though a post will be restored if the OP deletes it (and it's not a duplicate). You are anonymous here - remember: all we know about you is an email address, and I assume you used a special address for SI alone. I mean, that's what I did.

Given your reluctance to share, maybe you should consider getting comfortable with more sharing. (I advocate addressing fears head on, especially when one is anonymous.)

Very gently, although your W's experience isn't common, I think your responses are. My W had an A with a woman. Even so, and even though people may use words differently, I think what I experienced is similar to what you describe. A PA is gut-wrenching for the BS. Simply gut-wrenching.

The length of time you've been working on this is unusual. Nothing you've written leads me to think that something is wrong with you, though. My reco is to assume you're OK and to assume you will heal.

*****

Do you have someone you can discuss this who you know will keep what you say confidential?

Sisoon nailed it. You mentioned your IC is female. Maybe you need a guy to talk to who gets it. You say you are crazy about each other and you really can’t blame her but you are carrying this cross for 15 years. You need to rethink this box you have put yourself in. It appears deeply unhealthy. You have a lot to unpack here and your IC does not seem to be helping you. Another IC seems very much in order.

And I gotta say, it is perfectly ok to recognize that you CAN blame her. She made the choices even to cutting you off during her A. You have every right to your feelings but you must find a way out of this cycle. I don’t see how rumination is the answer. And giving her a mental pass is self defeating. Please for you well being think about this.

Edited because I didn't realize I had already posted here and basically just made a duplicate from page two. Oops.

[This message edited by Pogre at 5:27 PM, Friday, June 13th]

Hello-

I just read through the rest of the thread in interested in how things are progressing.

I have heard from many ws over the years who have been a victim of CSA. I do not know if this applies to your wife or not. But, a lot have felt that they basically reinacted aspects of that degradation through their affair.

You have shared some vulnerability. I will extend some of mine in the case it helps you reframe some of this into a feeling that is possibly a little less helpless feeling.

CSA is something that teaches us early on to "be a good girl and go along with things". Its very confusing that even after experiencing the abuse we go back and spend more time with our abusers. It’s something that created deep shame in me.

You see people who abuse children tend to choose us based on our deep need for attention and validation. Our home life is known to them. They know the buttons to push and feel like they can control the situation because they know to give us what we lack. They give us those basic needs of attention and to us it becomes worth it. Add to the fact that our bodies respond to it sometimes and it creates a lot of confusion over our participation, separating us from feelings of victimization.

When we grow up, we survivors often mix up the sexual favors with a cost of admission. Personally, this resulted in promiscuity as a teenager to get boys to like me. It never worked of course it created scenarios in allowing myself to be used and I grew out of that eventually, but very close to the time I got married.

This probably in some ways helped my marriage because I felt like he needed it, and I needed to provide it. At times early in our marriage I was pretty performative as well. As I matured, I really forgot that era. I remember when my therapist asked me if this had happened months into my therapy. I sat for a second and said "well yeah, but what does that have to do with any of this?"

However, going into my affair, there was a lot of my behavior that was that of the desperate young women I had been. I was using my sexuality to get the payoff that I really wanted. In my marriage I felt needed, but often questioned if I was loved and cherished. This was not because of a malfunctioning husband, this was because of the shame I carried that I could never quite internalize that I was worthy of his love.

So what did I do? I believed I could make this man I was having an affair with cherish me. His premise was the old cliche, his marriage was fine in most aspects but was virtually sexless. I am a smart woman but when desperation is your momentum, you are willing to believe about anything.

In many ways I had reverted back to the period before I had married or matured and I think I truly believed that he would be so bowled over by all that I was willing to do that he would cherish me.

This is really hard for me to say because the layers of wrongness, the outcomes this yielded , and the idiocy and lack of reality I was living under. Even though this man really made it as clear as the nose on my face.

I share it for one reason- you maybe angry this happened to her. The man may or may not aware of lack of consent. But likely the reason she went back for more is that it was a learned behavior. And because she was likely just trading for what she ultimately hoped she would ultimately get, whatever it was she was seeking.

That is on her of course. But perhaps the framing I have provided will help you have that conversation with her. I come back to some of your pain is from bottling it up from her. I think you are a very protective husband and that protection extends to holding it in as to not upset her. You are trading your mental health for hers. This is a bad idea when both of you can work towards better mental health instead of burying all this.

I also want to assure you that some of the things she needs to face to be able to reconcile it within herself will require things being brought up for her to answer to. I feel that after her affair, some of your intimacy has split. You are not sharing significant parts of your internal world, probably telling yourself it won’t help, but it keeps the two of you separate Ina way that needs to be repaired. She may or may not be aware of this as it could be something she is also doing.

Bringing the dark into the light is part of the process. She should be able to explain this to herself- she needs to realize why she would continue on with someone who essentially sexually assaulted her because there are protections she needs to be able to trust herself with.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:04 PM, Friday, June 13th]